High Peak Moors: your views needed

Posted by Ed Douglas on 15/11/2012

The National Trust is drawing up a management plan for the High Peak moors, including Kinder and Bleaklow, and it wants more input from climbers and hill walkers. So if you love these hills, take some time to check out what they're proposing.

The National Trust say it is developing a ‘Vision and Plan’ to guide the management of the High Peak Moors in the Peak District for the next quarter century. It’s an approach, it says, that will provide better landscape, access, habitats and wider public benefits, including improved water quality.

After a series of public meetings, the NT is now seeking views on its draft Vision and Plan. The final document will be produced in early 2013. The consultation period ends on 30 November 2012.

One of the guiding principles of the NT’s vision are the environmental services the High Peak provides to all of us, as a carbon store, a location for biodiversity and a buffer against flooding downstream.

Here’s the NT’s summary of what it’s proposing:

• To help people from a wider range of backgrounds to enjoy the moors and ensure that all users have an inspirational visit.

• The full range of native wildlife should be present, including birds of prey, which are currently under-represented.

• Blanket bog is a massive carbon store which we want to protect and enhance. We’re keen to continue the ambitious programme of work to rewet and revegetate the bog to make it a better carbon store, better for water quality, better for wildlife and more resilient to wildfire.

• Burning will be removed from blanket bog, where it is thought to be damaging, unless it is required for fire risk management

• Over the next 25 years we would like to see native woodland regenerated in cloughs and on valley sides. This will provide landscape and wildlife benefits, as well as helping to stabilise soils and enhance water quality

• Sheep reductions achieved under the Environmentally Sensitive Area scheme mean grazing levels are now right for blanket bog. However, cloughs and slopes are over-grazed and changes in management are required to help dwarf shrubs in these areas recover.

With so many vested interests in the Peak District, it’s important that the National Trust hears from all interest groups, not just those who fear they are losing out.

Read more about what the NT is planning and comment on their plans.

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Anonymous User

18/11/2012

don't make it all wheel chair friendly with signs for midgets in urdu and swaheli many groups of people just are not interested in the moors. leave them alone. Why not give local people work and pay them a living wage, instead of getting contractors in. Dont get rid of the local rangers who have worked here for years and get graduates in to farm the work off to outside agencies. JUDSAS'. People do live here as well as come to visit. also you could pressure local government for an integrated public transport system so visitors could get around without clogging up the roads and parking in front of my f ing house.

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Anonymous User

18/11/2012

It all sounds good to me, especially the regeneration of vegetation and reduction in grazing.
Marshall cale
www.lovethehills.co.uk

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Anonymous User

19/11/2012

The N.T has a lot to its credit in securing our heritage for the benefit of the nation BUT it has gone off the rails with over development of some of our wild places.
The 'motorways' of stone slabs over Kinder plateau for example. Most walkers are out there to get away from the constraints of urban life, not to be confrunted by the regulations of another set of control freaks.
Erosion control is important but surely this could be achieved without this over -engineered and expensive process.

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Anonymous User

19/11/2012

Over the last year or so I've witnessed many Helicopter loads of heather cuttings being showered onto the Kinder plateau, presumably as part of a 'regeneration' process. I have searched amongst these dead twiglets for signs of this hoped -for regeneration and have seen not one green shoot.
Did anyone try a 'test sample' before enbarking on this futile and expensive exercise?
While the rest of the country is 'all in it together' in these times of austerity, the National Trust is spending money on ill-concieved projects like it's going out of fashion.

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Anonymous User

19/11/2012

Would prefer to see single track gravel paths than more slabs of stone for errosion control please.

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Anonymous User

19/11/2012

Crushed stone sympathetic with the area would be good, used where it's needed, not everywhere.
The current stone paths can be seen from space.

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Anonymous User

19/11/2012

What's going on with the damming of groughs and streams on Kinder plateau?
The walk up the Kinder river over to Grindsbrook is a nightmare with all the man-made slurry pits.
Somebody is going to disappear one of these days/ nights.
Forcing walkers out of the stream beds onto the peat must increase erosion, not reduce it.

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Anonymous User

20/11/2012

All the proposed ideas sound great to me, especially regenerating the wildlife and landscape; but like the doubts others have expressed, I hope opening the land up won’t involve making it less walker friendly!

Laying slabs of stone all over the place, it’s just dangerous when wet or icy. Also whilst some of the new stiles might be incredible feats of rural engineering, and these inventions might make life easier for a less able bodied person, I’m buggered just because I’ve a large pack on my back and can’t fit through!? Give me a ladder any day, or at least make the gates a reasonable size.

I really like the post for improving the local transport, it’s not exactly Snowdonia but the Sherpa / public buses are a great help for day walks there, and might even encourage people to stop at some of the outlying towns and spend a few pennies to..?

I don’t actually agree with the comment about some of our ethnic minorities though. Guiding some of them in such places as the peak district it’s actually quite apparent there are many who would enjoy our great outdoors if it were more accessible. I’m not sure signs in various languages would help, but who needs a translation for a yellow arrow? The reasons for their absence from the hills is more complex than a quick comment would detail but needs to basically start at a community level.

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Anonymous User

20/11/2012

one of the joys of kinder is the presence of grouse and other birds. how long will they last with the introduction of more birds of prey which have already devistated much of wales? .... not long !

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Anonymous User

21/11/2012

Having posted 'less than complimentary' messages on this site I'll try to be a bit more constructive.
Take a cue from the Victorians, who successfully built a railway over the bogs of Rannoch Moor by
laying down a floating brushwood foundation.
Instead of burning off the old heather, cut it and use it as support matting in eroded or boggy ground.
This could be loose or in bale/mat form depending on location, or shredded into coarse mulch for use in 'trough'paths.
If supporting pathways are provided, particularly in the quagmire areas like Crowden,
walkers will use them instead of zig-zagging to keep afloat as they do now.
A few bales pegged into the grough bottoms would probably filter the washed-in peat and allow
the water to drain down reducing the 'slurry pit' effect.of the current dams.
Give it a test run. If it works you can perhaps replace some of the stone slabs.
These could perhaps then be used as the foundations for Wind Turbines (Oh no! - what am I saying--)

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Anonymous User

21/11/2012

Re; use of heather support matting in boggy places.
Some of it might take root and grow, but don't hold your breath.

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Anonymous User

22/11/2012

These wonderful places need to both be protected and yet be available for a growing number of walkers who need to get closer to nature, see the hills, valleys, the wide diversity of plants and animals. So although I like to walk on grass I totally agree with more paths using slabs of stone for erosion control. To help me keep walking well into my old age I would like see gates which I can fit through with my back pack rather than ladders so keep up all the good work that is already being done.

I would like to see just a few more way markers so people don’t get lost and the day is made as enjoyable as it can be for all. I would like to see a few more notices giving information about the wild life and also something of its history in order that people can feel a closer affinity to the areas. I like the idea of reintroducing birds of prey but only if that is truly natural to the environment and give a true balance to the land and not done simply because a particular specie would be ‘nice to have’.

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Anonymous User

22/11/2012

To the person who says that the spreading of heather brash hasn't produced a single green shoot...you must be on thorazine. If you tale a walk over what used to be the black mire of Black Hill or Bleaklow you are now bouncing across spring green heather and turf. Why you would want to tell such silly fibs is beyond me. It has worked brilliantly, now crawl back under your bridge, you naughty troll.

Check out the before and after pic of Black Hill in this article: http://www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk/news/millions-moss-%E2%80%98beads%E2%80%99-airlifted-restore-peak-district-and-south-pennine-moors (...and you say reseeding hasn't worked. You need to up your presecription, buddy)

To the person who has complained about the damming of the groughs and streams, you know bugger all about peat upland management. It's a tried and tested method for regeneration of the land; again, it works brilliantly. It always helps to get your facts straight first. Here's a fact about gully blocking that might help:
http://www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk/node/496

Love from,
Martin Kocsis

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Anonymous User

22/11/2012

Now then Martin, no need to be rude.There is a difference between a fib and an expressed opinion.
This naughty troll has upped his thorazine dose and am prepared to accept that the spreading of heather brash works in some situations.if you say so.
I still say I haven't seen it on the Kinder plateau so,if you find some growing, give a grid ref. and I'll go on a pilgrimage to pay homage.
Nobody is saying that damming of upland streams doesn't work.(or that it does) .
The point being made is that it makes foot passage more difficult.because of the slurry traps.
Try getting out for a walk. It might help reduce your blood pressure.
Returned love,
Naughty Troll

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Anonymous User

23/11/2012

I agree with Naughty Troll on both points. I have not seen any new heather growing on Kinder as a result of the, I assume expensive, spreading of the heather cuttings. Also various popular walking routes e.g Crowden Head to the Kinder River are now virtually impassable. For years we have been able to walk along the grouphs but now we are forced to keep on the tops. This will lead to more erosion as people try to find different ways through the quagmire. Although I am against paths across the middle of Kinder, the building of a few sections of unobtrusive paths in selected places would help, if the NT are to continue with the damming. By 'unobtrusive', I don't mean lines of heavy flagstones but gravel or netting-type paths only on the worst short sections.

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Anonymous User

23/11/2012

Just followed Martin's links to uplands regeneration projects .Didn't see any ref.to heather brashing but planting of sphagnum moss and other growing plants very positive. Pleased to see reference to heather bale dams- didn't know about these when I made the suggestion, thought that was just in my head (it's the thorazine medication).
Now, what about pathways of heather cuttings through the soggy bogs of Crowden? I.think slabs or gravel would sink without trace.
Saga 5 (alias Naughty Troll)

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Anonymous User

23/11/2012

Having quickly scanned this article I would just like to raise one point. We are all well aware of the erosion caused by walkers and the attempts to combat this are visible throughout the moors. Why therefore are we wanting to attract "people from a wider range of backgrounds?" I have seen these people from "wider backgrounds" climbing Ben Nevis in jeans and trainers! Are we trying to keep mountain rescue busy??? They'll spend all their days rescuing chavs who have ventured out without adequate equipment or knowledge. I may be stereotyping somewhat here but these people have no respect for the natural environment and no understanding of how their actions impact upon it. Do you think they'll think twice about dropping their litter? Or disturbing nesting birds? Or playing their music loudly? I don't think so! More people = more erosion. Keep the moors for those who understand, enjoy and love them.

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Anonymous User

24/11/2012

Re: item (17).
Correction. I mean Crowden Head, top of Kinder. (not Crowden)
Naughty Troll

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Anonymous User

24/11/2012

Agree with those decrying the stone slab paths. Totally over engineered & unsightly. Plastic dams in the the groughs are also unsympathetic. I'm sure heather bales would have been better. As others have noted, spreading heather brash on Kinder doesn't seem to have worked. Just aload of dead twigs lying around. On the other hand the cotton grass planting exercise has been a success.
More interpretation boards & way marks - no! These are anathema in wild places.
Re-introducing raptors - maybe. I doubt the gamekeepers will take that lying down, if the killing of existing buzzards is anything to go by.
Saga 4

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Anonymous User

25/11/2012

legal rights of ways, in fields ,cows with calves, laws need to change, i was lukey ,but to many walkers have been ,killed .and many injured by cows with calvers, read cow attacks your be shocked , members of the public sould be safe, keep a long distance ,dont run, your still attacked, warning to all walkers

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Anonymous User

25/11/2012

Re: item (21)
Cows, especially with calves on agricultural land should be treated with respect but don't usually
attack people because they don't see them as a threat.
I wonder if you had a dog with you when you were attacked. They are likely to become agressive then and, if you are in the way, you can get hurt.
Don't walk amongst cows with calves if you have dog with you.
If you do get caught out, don't try to protect your precious pooch. Let it loose and look after yourself.
The dog will probably outrun the cow, you won't.

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

The slurry dams which are proliferating all over the Kinder plateau have, in a very short time (a few months) made many areas effectively impassible. Areas which have been perfectly walkable over many years (in my case, 50) now have me floundering in a mass of deep black slurry, unable to progress where I want on hitherto tried & tested routes. If this is" peat upland management" then those who organise and practice this kind of thoughtless and stupid activity have studied in the wrong school. It's certainly not improving access - quite the contrary.

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

Dead against more stone slabs - there are far too many already. Acceptable to help in those few bits where they are really needed, but the National Trust evidently don't know the meaning of "moderation". I suspect that whoever is "managing" this destruction of a wilderness area won't be satisfied until the whole of Kinder & Bleaklow is festooned with miles of stone slabs. It just isn't true that their purpose is to alleviate erosion - there are a number of these eyesores placed where there was no path before.

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

I agee that the spreading of heather brash hasn't resulted in any heather growth - it's the person who asserts otherwise who is telling silly fibs. However, the planting of cotton grass does seem to be working, and is being done where it's needed.

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

The Sheep Fence. A complete waste of time, effort and money. I believe this is supposed to keep sheep out of the plateau area of Kinder. Anyone who has been going up there regularly over at least the past 20 years or so knows that you just don't see sheep on the plateau, apart from the butty-scroungers at the Downfall. Plenty on the lower slopes, though. Sheep are not as daft as some of us think they are. So the fence becomes an intrusive eyesore in one of the few wild areas in the Peak, serving no other purpose. Whoever has made to decision to build the fence does not seem to have been guided by common sense, personal knowledge and observation.

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

Reading the posted comments there seems to be a theme developing. Some people want easier access for all, others don't want over development and some don't seem to want any criticism of N.T. practices, valid or not.
Hopefully, all reasonble and non abusive views are welcome. ( please confirm N.T.)

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

Item 27, Fence on Kinder.
Building the sheep fence seems a waste of time because they don't go on the plateau. There's nowt for them to eat. However , if regeneration works there will be so I think the fence gives the new plants a better chance of getting established.

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Anonymous User

26/11/2012

Leave the moors alone

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Anonymous User

27/11/2012

Sheep on the plateau: even if regeneration eventually works, I don't see that removal of the fence is going to result in sheep wandering on to the plateau. They wouldn't get very far before they sank without trace in the slurry! (Sheep are not daft...).

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Anonymous User

28/11/2012

Excellent! I love a good difference of opinion, especially when I know I'm right.
Heather brash spreading works; I've seen the difference it's made over the years on Black Hill and Bleaklow. In fact I remember helping out a couple of times and getting a free ride in a helicopter too. I know the area better than most because I've spent the last ten years writing the guidebook to the area (Over The Moors...go on, buy a copy!) and I've seen the improvement over that decade.

I know people say that we should "leave the moors alone", but that was done for decades as they steadily eroded and denuded so THAT worked really well.

The reality is that more people are coming to the moors and so measures have to be taken to conteract their impact. I know that climbers and walkers often like to keep areas just for themselves, but that's pretty cheeky. As I once said to the chief exec of some overbearing organisation many, many years ago at a public meeting "They're not your moors, they're our moors". The science based MftF are doing their best to look after and preserve them, and they need your practical help rather than unproductive silliness on t'internet forums. I'll be up there in the spring helping out agin, and I suspect I'll be in a minority. *sigh*

Love from,
Martin

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Anonymous User

28/11/2012

Re: Item 22.
Hang on, I just need to dry my eyes. --- that's better.
I see you welcome a 'difference of opinion' but note that any that don't match yours come under the catagory of 'unproductive sillyness'. The N.T. have asked for comments on their plans , not practical help, otherwise we might have all turned up with shovels, or our pockets filled with heather brash.
My opinions are as follows:
Reasonable access to moorlands should be maintained but not adapted to suit all abilities.
Way marking and signing should be kept to a minimum.
Path maintainance and erosion control should be as natural as possible in character with the surroundings.(no more slab highways)
Restoration and re-wetting of blanket bog (Kinder, Crowden head): make some concession to walkers in these areas. A few pathways of sunken brushwood/ heather cuttings in the worst areas should do the trick, maybe the odd marker post in the short term.
Fencing on Kinder ? It's there now - no point wingeing.
Wildlife: It'll sort itself out once the habitat is improved and the raptor-killers are jailed.
Naughty Troll

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Anonymous User

28/11/2012

correction to item 33.
Sorry, should have referred to item 32, not 22.
I did have tears in my eyes!

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Anonymous User

03/12/2012

In order to provide 'access for all', one path that the NT need to treat as a priority is the one next to the Kinder Reservoir coming from Hayfield. The stretch after the cobbles on White Brow is always a horrible clay mess and the slopes alongside are getting eroded as people try to get round. The reason I say 'access for all' is that a lot of people use this path, who go for short walks, therefore this affects more people than the paths on Kinder. A few bagfuls of gravel or equivalent would make an immediate difference.
On a separate point, when will the NT remove the hundred or more white bags that are lying in the Kinder River between the Gates and the Downfall - at least they were there last Wednesday. After the bags have been used, is it not possible to gather and anchor them until they area removed.

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Anonymous User

03/12/2012

Re Comment 35- That last sentence about the white bags should've stated 'are removed' not 'area removed' (finger trouble).

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Anonymous User

20/01/2013

The heather burning is to create new plant shoots for the Grouse to eat. There is already good access for the peaks by Train and Bus but you have to walk to get the most from the peaks.

But is that not the whole idea! There is more to the Peak District than traveling through it at speed by car.

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